SPEAKER_00: 0:23

Welcome to Texine TV.

SPEAKER_02: 0:27

Welcome to this new edition of Texine Talks on Tour. I'm at Pax8 Beyond in Amsterdam and I'm here with Rob Ray, CVP. I think that stands for Corfit Vice President.

SPEAKER_01: 0:36

Corporate Vice President.

SPEAKER_02: 0:37

Ecosystem and Community or the other way around. A community ecosystems partner experience. So you're the boss of the channel? Yeah. Alright. So um yeah, and last time I saw you, by the way, was in Washington at your previous employer. Yes, me too. Yeah, you did the uh the final uh keynote thing there. So since then you moved on. Um I just want to want to talk a little bit about how PACS8, what we see happening in the market in your neck of the woods, especially uh how things like AI security are impacting the the lives of MSPs. Yeah. Uh so just let's start with um one observation from my side, and you can sort of chime in. Sure. When I look at the titanium sponsors of this event, yeah, most of them are security providers. Yes. That's no coincidence, I would imagine. No. What's the um what does that tell you? Well, and what should that tell us?

SPEAKER_01: 1:25

Yeah, I think um uh there's obviously a lot of cybersecurity uh vendors, right? And and we know we saw this over the last probably eight, nine years where cybersecurity has become an absolutely critical path for managed service providers, an essential revenue stream. Um, you know, it used to be that a couple of years ago, like uh small, medium businesses would be like, well, that's not gonna happen to me. I'm too small, but now you see it everywhere.

SPEAKER_02: 1:49

Because there's a real need to do to absolutely to better protect SBs, right?

SPEAKER_01: 1:53

Right. So a lot of these vendors, a lot of the MSPs have grown significantly as a result of cybersecurity. I do anticipate, though, that you're gonna see a lot more AI vendors, vendors we have never even heard of, that are gonna start entering this space. And we're seeing it already, right? We're hearing the the the the rumble about it, uh, where the MSPs are talking about it, private equity companies are talking about it. There's some new companies that are starting to invest lots of money into it.

SPEAKER_02: 2:18

So you pure play AI vendors? Because everybody knows is an AI vendor now. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 2:23

And and every vendor should be, and in Paxley it's the same, incorporating AI into their technologies. And I think every vendor that's here, cybersecurity or whatever it is that you're doing in the MSP space has an AI strategy for their own technology. But what is the AI strategy for the MSP to be able to go to their end users? Yeah. So there is technology out there that and service offerings uh that MSPs are going to get that are going to be coming from these vendors that are yet to be here.

SPEAKER_02: 2:50

Because what makes what makes it so such a different problem or challenge for MSPs to deal with AI towards their customers, in your opinion.

SPEAKER_01: 2:59

Cybersecurity, and you know, we we talked about it briefly there. Like part of the issue is that we understood the urgency around cybersecurity. We understood how critical this was and that everybody was under attack, but it took a while for end users to adopt that and believe that, right? So it just it's it was kind of this journey that we're on. AI is no different. This is a new technology that can increase productivity, it can, it can help companies scale and uh find efficiencies, all those wonderful things. Uh again, we have to pull the SMB end user onto that journey. And that's going to be the MSP that has to do that.

SPEAKER_02: 3:33

Do you think we need smaller promises when it comes to AI and maybe also cybersecurity? Because I mean, especially the bigger vendors are making very big promises.

SPEAKER_01: 3:40

Yes.

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Which I'm a bit of a cynic or a skeptic, but also part of my job, I think. Yeah. But uh how how how how how do you look at that?

SPEAKER_01: 3:47

I I find that it's it usually ends up somewhere in the middle because I'm I'm very cynical as well. Right. So I do the same thing as you. And we've all seen technologies that were supposed to be like revolutionizing our channel, but that never came to fruition. IoT is a great example of that, right? We're all looking at IoT and how we're gonna make money and then the blockchain. Yeah, we so we all I think AI is is uh it I think it's different. I don't, it doesn't feel the same, it's not looking the same, and there's just too much money and too much investment going on from very significant organizations that are coming. Um, and again, I think this is why it's a great opportunity for the MSP to take advantage of this. And then you saw it in the in our keynote where the total addressable market for IT and small business is now bigger than the total addressable market for IT and enterprise. So there's more small businesses, there's more money flowing through small businesses.

SPEAKER_02: 4:37

Is that because uh there are more uh coming more and more small businesses, or is that because small businesses are investing, need to invest more in IT that that market is growing?

SPEAKER_01: 4:49

Well, I think I think the the reason why there's more total addressable market for small businesses because and it, you know, let's look at the pandemic. Like a lot of people started businesses. My my wife alone started her own business. She's now up to five, six employees and doing very well and growing her business. And I think that's part of it is that kind of condition. The other part of it, too, is you know, during the pandemic, there was some job loss. Those people went and generally started businesses or joined smaller businesses to help those businesses scale. And if we think about AI, AI is going to replace some human work. There is no doubt about that. There will be some job loss. Um, what are those people going to do? Probably start small businesses, right? Or go out into business on their own. And then they have the opportunity to grow. And I think that's where it's kind of coming from. It's kind of fueling itself.

SPEAKER_02: 5:34

What does all this mean for PAX 8, your your own platform and your own uh sort of application store, so to speak? Your own platform because I I get what you're trying to do, right? You want to offer one platform with whatever MSPs need. Yeah. But is the it do you do you expect sort of a sizing issue to become become become a problem? Because if you have too many on there, I mean maybe you also need to invest more in AI and automation, all that stuff to actually make that work better for your MSPs, right?

SPEAKER_01: 6:03

Yes. So there's two things, right? So uh the investment and from an AI perspective that we've made into our own platform is through our marketplace. So our marketplace is a a different way for MSPs to consume things in a better way where AI is actually uh finding more like better products, better matching, those kinds of things. At the same time, it's also the opportunity through the storefronts for them to be able to offer a different buying experience for their ed users, where a lot of end users, a lot of people these days, we want to do it on our own. We don't want to talk to salespeople, we don't want to necessarily engage with other humans through this until we're ready to buy. So we are you leveraging AI through our marketplace, through uh the MCP server that we've got in there, uh, through the Opportunity Explorer that's using AI to find other opportunities for MSPs, logical opportunities.

SPEAKER_02: 6:52

So with this M with that MCP server, you so your your MSPs can look can sort of hook up things to that to that platform? How does that work?

SPEAKER_01: 6:59

So what the MCP server does is think of it as more like a like a translator. So we have an incredible amount of data, right? MSPs have an incredible amount of data. And because this is like PAX8 is where people come to buy, um, and then you've got all these AI tools or LLMs. What what MCP does is it sits in the middle of the two. So now the MSP can query their own data and find insights that they just couldn't find any other way. Um unless they were really digging through the data. It's more of a simple way of doing it.

SPEAKER_02: 7:28

Is that something that you necessarily need to offer them? Is that not something that they can get somewhere else?

SPEAKER_01: 7:32

Is that do you see that as a PAX 8 kind of absolutely because we we hook it into our platform and then that and we are the ones that are kind of storing all this data along with PSAs and RMMs and all that? It's the one single place where all this stuff is. So it makes sense that this could be there. Now, there are a lot of technologies that are coming to market that are incorporating MCP, and I think it's going to be pretty common in in most of the vendors that you're gonna see. But yeah, I think where we are, because we have so many vendors, because we have so many MSPs, because we have so much data, it logically makes sense to be at this part of the ecosystem.

SPEAKER_02: 8:05

And what about, I mean, 2025? We cannot have a discussion on AI without talking about agentic, right? Yes. Lots of uh agents flying around and an AI agent, all that stuff. Yeah. Is that also something that you see happening from your side? So next to MCP, also a support for agentic kind of stuff, A2A and all that stuff going on.

SPEAKER_01: 8:23

Yeah, so the so the marketplace investment is what kind of what we're using AI to help the MSPs find more opportunity. That's out today. The AI store that we launched today and the investments that we're making in finding AI technology that has not found the managed services space yet. Um, that is the second part of this. And again, PAX8 is a great place for these vendors not only to come and say, hey, I want to sell into SMBs, the only way to sell into SMBs is through the MSP. So we can bring these vendors, help them develop partner programs, pricing strategies, introductions to the MSPs. Then the MSPs can find technology that they've never heard of before that can maybe find those efficiencies and help them sell more things. So it's kind of like a common meeting place where we can bring it all.

SPEAKER_02: 9:05

A big impact on um on what you're developing yourself. Because if you if you want to give uh give customers access to data or to insights from data, you also need uh, you know, stuff like vectorization, vector search, all that stuff. Yep. Must have been a very fundamental um, not necessarily re-architecting, but uh uh you get what I'm saying, right? Of your own platform.

SPEAKER_01: 9:27

Yeah, absolutely was, which is what the marketplace was. And we started working on this about four years ago, uh, came to market with it only 18 months ago. Uh, but yeah, that's that's where a lot of the development, the innovation that we're doing at Pax8 is happening is in that spot. Because we want to continue to make it better. But even better is that we also have these like common ask queries because MSPs, uh, you know, on the fringes, they're all different from each other, but the core of what they do, in essence, is the same globally, uh, providing IT services to small medium businesses. So if I can find you know the best practices, the commonalities, if I can, you know, talk to our community, it's one of the great things. It's like as a community, we have an incredible amount that we can share. Somebody has figured something out, somebody else is struggling for something, you know, we can connect those two. And, you know, where we are, where our marketplace is, is a great place to do that.

SPEAKER_02: 10:17

And just we're in Amsterdam now, right? So Europe. Yeah. How does the European situation with data privacy, sovereignty, all that stuff, how does that impact what you're doing?

SPEAKER_01: 10:27

Oh, it it's essential. I mean, you have to you have to consider that, or you have to think about these things. There's no doubt. Um, it's a critical part of even the MSP's uh offering service, offering those kinds of things.

SPEAKER_02: 10:37

Because when you mentioned sharing, some things you cannot share, right? Of course, some things are are are across the pond. Of course, it's hard to do. How does that is it possible to get a completely air-gapped kind of kind of solution? No, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01: 10:50

No, all those the compliance, the the laws around this, the the data storage, all the type of stuff is all thought of and and really critical to this process. And on top of that is the cybersecurity aspect of it. How do we keep it all safe? Right? So we think about those things. We've made significant investments into our security team. Uh, we have a a phenomenal legal and compliance team that is constantly looking at these things. So we factor all of that.

SPEAKER_02: 11:13

Oh, and but you're all sort of depending on other stuff other things as well, right? So, for example, one of your MSPs can use uh an American cybersecurity provider like Crime Strike or Sentinel One or whatever, whatever uh other uh titanius phones that I missed. Yeah. Um but as but if they if they're not running on European soil, so that so they need to move as well. So you you you cannot do everything alone in the world.

SPEAKER_01: 11:35

No, absolutely not. And again, it and if you look at the MSPs as well, a lot of them are starting to become more global. They're not just serving their small market anymore or their their home market. We're starting to see MSPs. I ran into an MSP yesterday from the UK that's acquiring an MSP in Houston, Texas. Oh, wow. Right. So again, like compliance laws, security laws, data storage law, everything is different. You know, we we could be a place to help with that.

SPEAKER_02: 11:56

Like another headache as well. There's been a consolidation going on in the in in the MSP space for years, also in the Netherlands, right? And then in Europe. Yeah. Uh but if you're doing if you're doing it cross sovereignty boundaries, that's an extra layer of complexity you're adding to, right? Absolutely is. So and then the last point I want to touch on, uh, because I know you're almost out of time, is there's this concept of MIP now instead of MSP. Uh aren't MSPs good enough anymore? Or what's the uh now?

SPEAKER_01: 12:28

No, so if you look at an MSP and if you talk to the MSPs, they don't like when when somebody comes to them and says, hey, what do you do for a living? They're not saying I'm an MSP, right? They say IT solution provider or you know, uh computer solutions. There's different ways of saying what it is that we actually do. MSP tends to be a very internal term within our space. We all understand what it means. But when you go out to the greater public, it's you're not really gonna run a marketing campaign to say I'm a managed service provider, because it doesn't, it doesn't drill down to the core of what they do. We do believe that AI is gonna change that. People are going to be actively seeking AI. And if they're out there saying, you know, what is AI? Because AI can be many different things, uh, we believe managed intelligence is the way to go and market this. So being a managed server, a managed intelligence provider or offering a manager's management, managed intelligence offering is the right way that we can all go to market and make everybody understand what it is.

SPEAKER_02: 13:22

And so and is this closely connected to the agentec and to the AI, right? Because otherwise you're gonna be in an MIP. And so then the follow-up question obviously is can every MSP become an MIP? Because obviously there are many MSPs, and some of them are actually maybe quite happy to call themselves MSPs, even though nobody knows what they're talking about. And they don't want to be that they don't really want to move.

SPEAKER_01: 13:42

Is that something that you're expecting or that you're seeing? You know, I I mean that one of the great things about our space is it's constantly changing. And it's it's it's it's exciting because it's constantly changing. It's more interesting because it's constantly changing, but it's also exhausting sometimes too. And there's a lot of MSVs, like, for example, like older business owners that are like, I don't really want to start a new journey right now. But you know, so they may be part of that MA, they may be part of that acquisition process.

SPEAKER_02: 14:08

Because this is this has been a uh an area of constant flux over the past ten years. Yeah because the old box movers that we that we used to use as we used to call them back in the day, yeah, they had to move towards managed services. So they and now now they're they finally became managed service providers, then they have to become something else again. That's it.

SPEAKER_01: 14:25

Those box movers, we lost some of them. Yeah, they went out of business. They didn't evolve, they didn't change, and they ultimately either stayed in their niche or uh or went out of business. Uh you know, we're we're seeing we're gonna see the same thing with AI. And I don't I don't like the doomsday and I don't like to you know say that this is a big threat, but I think it's something that we can't ignore. Yeah. And I think this is why when we come to an event like this, we want to at least create the thought, the conversation. But let's do it properly and let's do it with support to help people on that journey. And that's what we want to do at PAX AI.

SPEAKER_02: 14:56

So, but some of some of them may end up disappearing or being acquired, or but that's just the way of the world.

SPEAKER_01: 15:03

We saw this with with the box uh box shifting, we saw this with cloud adoption, we saw this with cybersecurity. You can't be an MSP and not offer cybersecurity these days. AI is gonna be the same thing.

SPEAKER_02: 15:14

So, and do you do you really think do you really think that it's gonna be the name change that you you you you really expect it to happen? Or is it something that you're just sort of is it more marketing in the in that sense that you want to push that to the market, your vision? But do you really expect them to call themselves MIPs instead of MSP?

SPEAKER_01: 15:29

We do, we do. I I mean we we can the the key to this isn't so much what we call it, it's more so that we're on this journey and we're all thinking about it. And if it helps by framing it to say managed intelligence provider, let's have that conversation. But at least we're having a conversation. If it turns out it's something completely different, that's fine too. But at least we started the journey, we're on the conversation. And we do think managed intelligence is a way that you can market yourself and make it make sense. I'm gonna come in and manage the intelligence of your business.

SPEAKER_02: 15:59

And obviously, you're you're always a bit ahead of the curve when you're sort of promoting stuff like this. Yes. So and so the last question is everybody's all are all MSPs, probably the answer is no, but are all are all MSPs ready for this?

SPEAKER_01: 16:13

None of us are ready. None of them are ready. No, no, and that's why we're having this conversation early, because the technology is coming, the innovation is coming, the money is coming. Conceptually, ready for it.

SPEAKER_02: 16:23

I mean, I would imagine conceptually, a lot of MSPs are seeing what's going to happen, and seeing what's going to happen, right? Yes. But then it's about translating the conceptual to the the actual, basically. And that that's the hard part. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 16:34

That's what you're trying to do. But this is where we're trying to make it easier. Imagine cybersecurity at the beginning when we were all talking about it. We didn't know what it was going to be. We didn't know, we couldn't figure out what it was going to look like. Imagine somebody stepped up and said, Hey, I've got a blueprint on how this is going to work. It might not be right. We might have to tweak it here or there, it might change, but at least we're having a conversation. That's what we're doing with AI.

SPEAKER_02: 16:54

Yeah, you can have very interesting, various interesting kind of uh inroots in that, right? Absolutely. Verticalization, you can do, you can do many things in that in that respect to actually make it better. I think blueprints is a very uh interesting concept. I mean, not the easiest one because it's a very uh variated market as well.

SPEAKER_01: 17:10

That's where we all need to be flexible and figure out. But again, we have 47,000 partners. I know partners in Australia that are doing this already. I know partners in Canada that are doing this already. Um there are they've started. We can take those best practices, the what it is that they're actually doing, the success that they're having, the conversations they're having with their end users, the objections they're getting as to I don't want to pay for this. How do you price this alone? We can start gathering that with our 47,000 partners and bring it as a common best practice for our partners. And there's going to be extremes around it, and it might pivot and change, but there's but we can at least bring that education to our banks.

SPEAKER_02: 17:44

It'll be interesting to see where this goes. Yeah, another big change for the for the big change.

SPEAKER_01: 17:49

It'll keep us employed for a little bit longer.

SPEAKER_02: 17:51

That's good.

SPEAKER_01: 17:52

That's good because we don't want to be unemployed.

SPEAKER_02: 17:54

Thank you for joining. My pleasure.

SPEAKER_01: 17:55

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 18:00

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